PERMANENT CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO THE MTA
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 12, 2013
A meeting of the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee (PCAC) to the MTA was convened at 12:00 noon on September 12, 2013, in the 5th floor Board room, at MTA Headquarters, 347 Madison Avenue, New York City. The following members were present:
Andrew Albert Ira Greenberg
James F. Blair Christopher Greif
Sheila Carpenter William K. Guild
Mark Epstein Trudy Mason
Randy Glucksman Edith Prentiss
Stuart Goldstein Michael Sinansky
Burton Strauss, Jr.
The following members were absent:
Gerard Bringmann Rhonda Herman
Richard Cataggio Sharon King Hoge
Francis Corcoran Thomas Jost
Matthew Kessler Steve Mayo
Owen Costello Maureen Michaels
Mike Godino Raymond Pagano
Jessica Gonzalez-Rojas Bryan Peranzo
Larry Rubinstein Toya Williford
Marisol Halpern Neal Zuckerman
In addition, the following persons were present:
William Henderson – Executive Director
Ellyn Shannon – Sr. Transportation Planner
Karyl Cafiero – Research Associate
Ann Guild – Concerned citizen
Richard Schulman – Concerned citizen
Charles Sutter – Concerned citizen
Approval of Agenda and Minutes
The agenda for the September 12, 2013 meeting was approved. The minutes of the June 6, 2013 meeting were approved.
Chairs’ Reports
The PCAC, LIRRCC, MNRCC and NYCTRC Chairs’ Reports are attached to these minutes.
Mike Sinansky stated that he reviewed Mark Epstein’s LIRRCC report and that from reading it learned that the LIRRCC had a very active summer. Mr. Sinansky said that he was astounded at how much work Mr. Epstein and council had accomplished and wanted to commend them for it.
Andrew Albert commented on the NYCTRC’s recently released report, “Bridging the Gap.” He thanked all the NYCTRC members who went into the system to gather the information that forms the basis for the report. He commended Bradley Brashears, who went out into the system and surveyed three times the number of stations of any member.
Chris Greif commented that two additional bus services will soon begin. Mr. Albert stated that there a new type of bus line, the Q70, has been established by MTA Bus and that this service is a big plus for those going to LaGuardia Airport, The Q70 is particularly useful for those traveling from Long Island to the airport, as its schedule allows these riders to transfer to the bus at the Woodside LIRR station and travel to LaGuardia with only one intermediate stop.
Trudy Mason mentioned that she attended the recent Crain’s breakfast at which Tom Prendergast spoke. She said that he gave a great description of MTA in his remarks. Ellyn Shannon noted that she was troubled by Mr. Prendergast’s reported comments regarding the transit lockbox bill that is awaiting the Governor’s signature or veto.
Edith Prentiss pointed out that it will be two years before accessible service is restored at South Ferry and even so there is still no signage at the Chambers Street station that tells riders needing an accessible trip how to get to South Ferry.
Mr. Greif noted that riders needing an accessible trip to South Ferry are being advised to transfer to the M20 bus at Chambers Street, but the stop for the M20 is not close to the Chambers Street station.
Stuart Goldstein remarked that there is no signage on trains that the South Ferry station is not accessible. He suggested that information about accessibility could be added to the sign posted in 1 trains informing riders that they must be in the first five cars to exit the train at South Ferry.
Ms. Mason pointed out that there is still a problem with signage during FastTrack subway service outages. She said that recently the bannisters on the 77th Street station stairs were painted and as a result the service notices for that week’s FastTrack work were removed from the station entrance. She also asked that the PCAC continue to follow up on issues that she has raised regarding Select Bus Service signage.
New Business
Randy Glucksman said that the Executive Committee has been considering a change to the PCAC by laws that would allow Councils to maintain their representation on the PCAC Executive Committee in cases where a member holds multiple PCAC and Council offices that confer membership on the Executive Committee. Jim Blair introduced and explained the proposed change and Mr. Glucksman read the resolution aloud.
Mr. Greif wanted to know how the next FastTrack outage will operate on the Broadway line now that the R Train’s route has changed. William Henderson responded that he will request the service plan for the next FastTrack outage affecting the R Train.
Introduction of Projjal Dutta, MTA Director of Sustainability, to discuss the MTA’s efforts to make the system more resilient and sustainable in the face of changing weather and resource and environmental
Mr. Dutta noted that much of the MTA system is old and that its age makes it difficult to adapt the system to make it more resilient. He said that in Lower Manhattan, many subway stations face a great danger of damage from flooding and that the flooding danger is for tunnels is a function of the elevation of the invert at the mouth of the tunnel. In Lower Manhattan, the inverts at the mouth of the tunnels are relatively low, and the Lower Manhattan tunnels flooded, although other tunnels elsewhere that are lower in elevation at points other than the tunnel mouth did not flood.
Mr. Dutta noted that in Hurricane Irene, the MTA and its agencies learned what actions they should take during a storm event. Irene was a very wet storm in terms of rain, so the operating agencies shut down their systems and moved everything that was at risk from flooding and could be moved. In Sandy, the efforts that were made focused on reducing the impact of storm surge flooding, but each storm is different, and in a windy storm the measures that worked well during Superstorm Sandy might not provide the same protection for the system.
One major issue during Sandy was that the storm disrupted inter-borough connections in the MTA system. The MTA attempted to deal with this problem with bus bridges, but the effectiveness of this tool was limited because buses ran in mixed traffic and were delayed by all of the other vehicles on the streets. Mr. Dutta suggested that the lesson to be learned here is to have exclusive lanes for bus traffic to improve the operation of the bus bridges. He emphasized that there are two questions about responses to storms: what the MTA can do and what is viable in the face of other constraints. The MTA used temporary tarps and plywood effectively to keep water out of parts of the system, but this is a temporary solution and permanent solutions are needed for storms that occur every 5 to 10 years. These more permanent measures would include raised air grates, raised power systems, physical barriers over subway entrances, and devices designed to seal tunnels from water infiltration.
Ms. Prentiss asked whether raising electrical systems would involve elevating equipment a foot or two or relocating electrical systems so that they are above the level of the subway. Mr. Dutta responded that the aim is to raise equipment above flood level, so the likelihood is that it will be raised many feet. He noted that raising the electrical system means elevating components such as substations, and not track-level components such as the third rail. Mr. Dutta said that there are larger-scale solutions that have been proposed to reduce flooding impacts, including the construction of large flood gates in New York Harbor, but that these plans are outside the purview of the MTA.
Mr. Dutta said that a key to funding sustainability efforts is finding a way to monetize the MTA’s contribution to increased sustainability. He said that the analysis that must be done has to go beyond individual elements and look at the situation holistically. Mr. Dutta used the example of comparing a low density office park of energy-efficient buildings in Albany and a Manhattan office building and noted that when the energy expenditures involved in travel are factored into the equation, any differences in the buildings’ energy efficiencies are insignificant. The question is whether the MTA can quantify its contribution to energy efficiency and receive funding based on this contribution.
Ms. Prentiss asked whether the practice of raising subway ventilation grate covers performed as planned. Mr. Dutta responded that there are 1600 grates installed along Queens Boulevard and that NYC Transit has also raised 18 to 20 entrances, raised 800 grates, and installed 14 automatic closing grates. This work has dramatically reduced subway flooding in this corridor. The automatic grates maintain the sidewalk space and are effective in preventing water from getting into the subway, but, but they are susceptible to damage from trucks.
Mr. Sinansky commented that before the raised grates, the Queens Boulevard subway lines would shut down if there was one inch of rain in a short period. He asked how this area fared during Superstorm Sandy. Mr. Dutta noted that Sandy was a fairly dry storm and flooding from it did not impact inland stations greatly, while Tropical Storm Irene was a wet storm and was more threatening to the Queens Boulevard stations. He said that the larger question is why storm water flows into the subway when it should be handled by the storm sewer system. The MTA is not compensated to dispose of storm water, but spends a significant amount of money coping with it.
Ms. Prentiss pointed out that MTA designed its system and questioned why it will take two to three years for South Ferry service to be fully restored. Mr. Dutta responded that South Ferry was located when the IRT system was built and that once the alignment was established the MTA had limited options. The only option to build a new station at South Ferry with a 600 foot platform was to go under the existing facility. Ms. Prentiss asked what could be done in design phase to protect a station from flooding if it is located in a vulnerable area.
Mr. Dutta said that South Ferry was designed with unprecedented pumping capacity with 3 pumps capable of moving 1900 gallons per minute, but that even this capacity was overwhelmed by Sandy’s 17 foot storm surge. With a storm of this size, pumping cannot protect the station. The approach that is needed to protect stations such as South Ferry is larger in scale, like that used by the Dutch, who use gates to close harbors to storm swells. There are also other approaches like that used in the Tokyo subway system, which has created caverns under its system that are designed to accept water for a period of time to keep the system running long enough to safely shut it down.
Ellyn Shannon noted concerns that have been expressed about passengers being caught between stations during failures and asked what can be done to ensure their safety. Mr. Dutta said that one approach that has been suggested is to leave vulnerable areas of the system without third rail power and design rolling stock to store power in a battery or ultra-capacitor to allow cars to travel through the area without third rail. He said that this sort of a system is in operation in Nice, France and is being designed for London.
Mr. Greif asked how restoration on the G and R train tunnels is progressing and what will be done in this work. Mr. Dutta responded that one of the problems with the Montague tunnel is that it has a substantial amount of switching and electrical equipment that is vulnerable to flood damage in the tunnel.
Mr. Henderson noted that several candidates for Mayor have proposed making more use of bus rapid transit, including adding redundancy to rail corridors as a way to restore service after a storm impacting the subways. Mr. Dutta said that buses work well where there aren’t large numbers of people needing to be transported, but can’t keep up with high levels of demand.
Ms. Prentiss said that buses are a major part of evacuation planning for the City and that there had been difficulties moving people by bus for even this limited purpose.
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 1:50 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
William Henderson
Executive Director