LONG ISLAND RAIL ROAD COMMUTER COUNCIL
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2016
A meeting of the Long Island Rail Road Commuter Council (LIRRCC) was convened at 4:30 p.m. on January 14, 2016, in the LIRR East Side Access Readiness Conference Room at 450 7th Avenue, 20th Floor, New York City.
The following members were present:
Gerard P. Bringmann
Ira Greenberg
Mark Epstein
Maureen Michaels
Michael Godino
Bryan Peranzo
The following members participated in the meeting via Phone:
Matthew Kessler
Raymond Pagano
Larry Rubinstein
The following members were absent:
Sheila Carpenter
Owen Costello
In addition, the following persons were present:
William Henderson -PCAC Executive Director
Bradley Brashears -Transportation Planner
Hector Garcia -LIRR
Tom O’Brien -LIRR
Kyle McGraw -LIRR
Paul M. Victor -NY & Atlantic Railway
Chuck Samul -NY & Atlantic Railway
Stephen Quigley -Concerned citizen
Richard Schulman -Concerned citizen
Approval of Agenda and Minutes
The agenda for the January 14, 2016 meeting was approved. The minutes of the November 5, 2015 meeting were approved.
Chair’s Report
Mark Epstein delivered the Chair’s Report. He noted that Governor Cuomo is backing the revival of the Main Line Third Track project. The LIRRCC has supported this project since the early 2000’s and spoke out strongly in support during public meetings held in the past.
Mr. Epstein said that he wants to schedule a Meet the Council session. Bryan Peranzo asked whether the week of February 22nd would work. It was decided that a date of Thursday, February 25 would be proposed to the LIRR.
Mr. Epstein said that the recent increase in the maximum pre-tax transit benefit, which puts transit on the same level as the benefit available for commuter parking, is a big win for commuters. In addition, the City law requiring employers with twenty or more workers to offer pre-tax transit benefit helps commuters.
Mr. Epstein noted that Congressman Steve Israel has decided not to run for reelection. This decision is disappointing as the Congressman has been a good friend of the LIRRCC.
Mr. Epstein asked to Bill Henderson any ideas that they may have on future capital projects that are needed on the LIRR.
Board Report
Ira Greenberg delivered the Board Report. He said that there is funding ing the MTA budget for the purpose of improving the LIRR’s On Time Performance (OTP). He said that much of the problem is blamed on crowding, and while crowding is a cause of delayed trains, the Rail Road needs to look at the root causes behind lagging OTP.
Mr. Greenberg noted that East Side Access is still scheduled for an official opening in 2022, but there are serious issues that could lead to even more delays in the project. Gaining track access in areas controlled by Amtrak is a serious issue that needs to be resolved if the project is to be completed on its current schedule. There are also issues connected to Hurricane Sandy and flood protection that could affect East Side Access.
Staff Report
Mr. Henderson discussed several issues that had been raised by riders who have contacted the LIRRCC. He also discussed the NEC Future public hearing that had been held at the Nassau County government complex. Mr. Henderson said that the plans that were shown on boards and in a video presentation were very general in nature and preliminary, and represented the starting point in a process of improvements that could last nearly a century. He said that the direct impacts of the project on the LIRR were not likely to be great, as any new alignment of the Northeast Corridor that travels through Long Island would be on new tracks built for the purpose.
Mr. Henderson noted that most of the commentators who spoke at the hearing did not seem to have a specific understanding of the details of the project, and several of them asked for additional time to better understand the options presented before submitting comments. He said that there was nothing in the presentation that required action from the LIRRCC, but that it would be wise to monitor the NEC Future environmental process and potentially become involved at a later date.
Member Reports
Mr. Epstein asked whether the LIRR ADA Committee has met in the past several months. Mike Godino responded that it has not. He noted that announcements on the LIRR have been of an inconsistent quality, with many announcements made concerning some incidents and few announcements made concerning others.
Larry Rubinstein said that there is a great deal of resentment from Civic Associations regarding the reactivation of plans to build a Main Line third track and he believes that people in affected communities will fight against the project tooth and nail. Mr. Epstein replied that this kind of an initial response was expected. He said that the LIRRCC has and can be supportive of efforts to build a third track, but it is up to the MTA and the Governor to develop a strategy to counteract this opposition and move the project forward.
Ray Pagano said that there is lots of Superstorm Sandy-related work taking place on the Long Beach branch to Oceanside and East Rockaway. Has been active in dealing with these project as President of the Oceanside Civic Association.
Mr. Pagano said that in terms of the NEC Future project, it would be hard to say whether or not it will have a substantial impact on the LIRR and its riders.
Gerry Bringmann said he had an experience on train after a New York Ranger game on the past Saturday. There was no conductor in his car from Penn Station to Babylon and there was one passenger who was acting inappropriately. Because there were LIRR crew members there, the behavior continued until the problem passenger reached his destination. In addition, the front part of the first car in the train was off the platform at Babylon.
Bryan Peranzo stated that he went to an Islanders game in Brooklyn last Thursday and there was no ticket collector on his train.
Maureen Michaels commented that Hector Garcia owes the Council a report on the Cold Spring Harbor station. Mr. Garcia said that the schedule for the work on the station had changed.
Ms. Michaels also said that she is absolutely opposed to the Freedom Ticket concept that the NYC Transit Riders Council has been advancing. She said that she finds it insulting that Queens riders should not pay same fares as Nassau and Suffolk County riders.
Mr. Epstein asked the members to think about 2016 priorities for the Council over the next week and email them to him within a week.
Mrs. Michaels requested that the members receive a report on what the priorities for the Council have been in the past and what progress has been made.
Mr. Epstein requested that the members give him a list of the areas that they would like the LIRRCC to emphasize in 2016 so that he can develop a direction for the Council’s work. He said that he does not want the process of setting priorities to continue too deep into the month.
Introduction of Paul A. Victor, President – New York and Atlantic Railway, to Discuss Freight Rail Operations over Long Island Rail Road Tracks
Edward Dumas commented that the New York and Atlantic Railway (NYAR) was founded almost twenty years ago when the LIRR decided to transfer its freight operations to the private sector.
Mr. Victor said that freight traffic handled by the NYAR had grown greatly, from 2,000 carloads the startup of the company to almost 29,000 carloads in 2015. He noted that each carload transports the equivalent of three and one half to four tractor-trailer loads on the highway.
Mr. Victor said that the NYAR is a part of Anacostia Rail Holding Company, which includes a variety of unique rail operations. He gave examples of the railroads under the Company’s umbrella, including the operator of rail services within the Port of Los Angeles.
Operations of the NYAR are focused on the area east of Jamaica. Twenty-five route miles where the NYAR operates are freight only and half of the Railway’s freight traffic moves in this area. The other half of the freight is carried in joint use territory, where both passenger and freight trains operate.
In much of the joint use territory, there is little demand for freight service. The NYAR’s easternmost customers are currently on Riverhead, some are in Huntington, and some are on the LIRR’s Central Branch. Mr. Victor said that there are probably about one hundred route miles in joint use territory where the NYAR operates.
Mr. Victor said that the NYAR brings freight to the customer’s door. Once it crosses that door, the facilities for freight handling belong to the customer. The facilities for freight handling that are maintained by the customers is is the limiting factor for growth in freight shipments. He noted that the NYAR is a common carrier and if a shipper wants to send a car to a freight station, the NYAR will transport it. Most of the carloads handled come are handed over from other railroads. Mr. Victor said that since he has headed the NYAR, the railroad has only carried about seven cars that both originated and terminated in its territory. Most cars originate in Canada, Mexico and the United States. The NYAR transports propane but it has had a long trip before it reaches Long Island, as most of it comes out of Canada. He said that the NYAR are first mile – last mile carriers.
The NYAR has been very vigilant in reducing fuel consumption, and the best way to do this is to turn the locomotive’s engine off. The NYAR uses less fuel to move goods than truck shipment. Mr. Victor said that new locomotives will be coming online this year and have very low emissions. Starting in two to three months, the delivery of a total of four locomotives will begin. He said that Anacostia Rail Holding has a lot of experience with low emission locomotives through its involvement with the Port of Los Angeles.
Mr. Epstein asked if the NYAR anticipates growth in freight shipments. Mr. Victor replied that NYMTC says the volume of freight fluctuates with economic activity. The real issue is the availability of facilities at the receiving end. The NYAR runs about six trains per day. Mr. Victor said that even If they were to double the number of trains to twelve, this would be an imperceptible increase for most people near the tracks. He noted that the NYAR currently moves 30,000 carloads per year, but customer capacity to receive freight is probably around 40,000 carloads without customer facility improvements.
Mr. Epstein asked what type of goods are being transported by the NYAR. Mr. Victor responded that the NYAR is obligated to carry any lawful cargo, but what they do transport is driven by the economic activity in the service territory. He stated that 70 percent of tank cars that the NYAR transports are carrying edible oils, and not propane as is supposed by many people. The oils are processed and put into containers suitable for consumer use and sold locally.
Ms. Michaels stated that the LIRRCC was told that there were no combustible materials transported over NYAR tracks. She wanted to know what would have happened if a derailment had involved cars carrying propane gas and whether there have been an explosion in this case. Mr. Victor said that the maximum speeds that the NYAR observes are lower than the minimum speeds that propane tank cars are designed to withstand in a collision. He added that the NYAR does not transport toxic inhalants or poisonous inhalants.
Mr. Pagano stated that he assumes the NYAR has a procedure for dealing with incidents and requested that it be made available to the Council. Kyle McGraw of the LIRR responded stated that the NYAR has a safety plan but there may be security issues involved with releasing it, which he will investigate.
Mr. Epstein suggested that it would be a better practice to cover trains with construction waste. Mr. Victor stated that the material is the same as is in dumpsters and they move on trucks. There is netting covering the trains. Bryan Peranzo asked whether the construction waste includes asbestos. Mr. Victor replied that it does not, and that movement of waste containing asbestos is regulated by the NYS Department of environmental conservation.
Mr. Bringmann asked whether the NYAR transports radioactive waste. Mr. Victor said that when radioactive materials are transported under a special plan that was worked out with the LIRR before the NYAR started operations.
Mr. Peranzo asked whether the NYAR is limited to certain tracks. Mr. Victor replied that there are physical limitations in the system, but the LIRR assigns the tracks that the NYAR uses. He noted that outbound materials are the mirror image of the inbound loads. For example, inbound loads contain building materials and aggregates and outbound loads include construction and demolition debris and recyclable metals. The NYAR handles municipal solid waste within New York City, but not in Nassau or Suffolk Counties.
Ms. Michaels asked if cars she sees stopped at Hicksville contain combustible materials. Mr. Victor replied that these cars do not contain combustible materials and that the combustible material currently carried by the NYAR is propane, and that cars containing propane travel from the Fresh Pond to a single location, Paraco Gas. There are 350 to 400 cars transported per heating season, with three cars per trip. They principally move at night, leaving Fresh Pond about 11pm.
Mr. Epstein noted that the NYAR and MTA are working on a new contract and asked whether the agreement includes a number of carloads to be transported. Mr. Victor said that it does not.
Ms. Michaels asked whether there are issues with system capacity and stresses on the system from freight. Mr. McGraw said that freight presents no detriment to the system in either area and generates funding for the railroad.
Ira Greenberg asked how the NYAR gets its locomotives. Mr. Victor responded that many of its locomotives are leased from the LIRR and that they are similar to the equipment used by the LIRR for internal movement in its yards. While they are not new, many of the components of the locomotives have been replaced, and they operate as cleanly as they did when they were built. Newly designed locomotives can produce emissions that are cleaner than the air that is taken in in terms of harmful pollutants. He said that the emissions of equipment are largely determined by their design, and if the engine or prime mover is kept the same, there is little that can be done to improve emissions. One exception is that the NYAR has reduced the ratio of lubricating oil consumed to diesel fuel used, which has improved emissions. The industry standard is that locomotives consume a volume or lubricating oil equal to 2.2 percent of the diesel fuel used, but the NYAR is down to a ratio of .6 percent.
Ms. Michaels asked the size of train crews. Mr. Victor replied that trains have two to three member crews.
Mr. Bringmann asked whether the NYAR will be obligated to use Positive Train Control (PTC). Mr. Victor said that when PTC is in operation on the LIRR, the NYAR will use it.
Mr. Epstein asked who performs the cleanup when there is a derailment. Mr. Victor responded that it depends on where the incident occurs. This relates to the work rules negotiated with railroad unions.
Mr. Greenberg wanted to know if NYAR crews are qualified on the entire LIRR system. Mr. Victor responded that the crews are qualified wherever they operate. His crews are not qualified to operate to Penn Station, since freight operations do not run into Manhattan.
Ms. Michaels asked where NYAR trains operate from. Mr. Victor replied that the railroad’s home base is located in Glendale, Queens.
Mr. Bringmann wanted to know if they were planning to expand Brentwood Terminal. Mr. Victor replied that Brentwood Terminal is legally another carrier and the NYAR interchanges with the terminal.
Mr. Epstein asked whether pricing is based on the cargo. Chuck Samul commented that prices are a market driven rate. Mr. Victor added that the average haul by the NYAR is 26 miles and the Railway has very little impact on overall rates.
Mr. Greenberg stated that in last year’s Hicksville derailment a gondola rocked off the rails. He asked if this equipment was too large for the conditions and whether this incident means that the NYAR should not transport this size of car. Mr. Victor stated that the NYAR does not operate equipment if it is not safe, but different car sizes have different issues.
Richard Schulman asked whether the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigates incidents such as the Hicksville derailment. Mr. Victor said that for the NTSB to investigate incidents like this they must rise to a point where they can learn something out of the investigation. The Federal Railroad Administration generally investigates these incidents. The situation is similar to aviation where the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulates airlines and the Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) handles economic issues. For railroads the Surface Transportation Board (STB) is like the CAB.
Ms. Michaels noted out that if there is another derailment that affects passenger service, there will be a lot of pushback from the riders.
Mr. Epstein asked the status of the contract between the LIRR and the NYAR.
Mr. Victor said that the NYAR has applied for renewal of the agreement under the terms of the original contract. He said that the conditions for contract renewal are contained in the original agreement, and if the NYAR meets specified performance standards and wishes to renew the contract, then the LIRR is obligated to renew the agreement.
Mr. Victor added that his operation has an open door policy and the NYAR invites the LIRRCC to visit or ride with a train crew. If the number of visitors is over 12, they should split up into smaller groups.
Mr. Epstein stated that the Council knows policy makers want to increase freight transportation by rail, but it wants to know its potential impact on riders.
Mr. Victor said that passenger trains’ maximum speed is 80 mph, but these trains have starts and stops, so the average speed is 30 to 35 mph. Freight moves at a maximum speed of 45 mph, so they sometimes catch up to passenger trains and do not delay them.
Mr. Epstein asked the NYAR’s experience with automobiles striking trains. Mr. Victor said that in the last year they had a 20mph train strike, they had a drunk individual walk into the train, and had individuals on the tracks playing a game of chicken where the engineer put the train into brakes in emergency. He said that passenger trains have a greater chance of striking someone, because the NYAR travels only about 5,000 miles per month. The Railway operates on the Port Jefferson branch once per week and does not go east of Riverhead or operate on the Montauk or Hempstead branches or many other small branches. There is a great deal of seasonality to the NYAR traffic, because so much of its cargo is construction materials or debris.
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 6:20 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
William Henderson
Executive Director
Mr. Peranzo wanted to know what is the latest on Hicksville. Mr. Garcia stated out to bid and negotiating with the vendors.