PERMANENT CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO THE MTA
MINUTES OF MARCH 12, 2015
A meeting of the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee (PCAC) to the MTA was convened at 12:00 noon on March 12, 2015, in the 5th floor Board room, at MTA Headquarters, 347 Madison Avenue, New York City.
The following members were present:
Andrew Albert William K. Guild
Gerard Bringmann Marisol Halpern
Sheila Carpenter Trudy Mason
Randy Glucksman Scott Nicholls
Mike Godino Edith M. Prentiss
Stuart Goldstein Michael Sinansky
Christopher Greif Burton M. Strauss, Jr.
Neal Zuckerman
The following members were on the phone:
Francena Amparo Matthew Kessler
The following members were absent:
Richard Cataggio Sharon King Hoge
Francis T. Corcoran Steve Mayo
Owen Costello Maureen Michaels
Ira Greenberg Bryan Peranzo
Rhonda Herman Larry Rubinstein
Mark Epstein Raymond Pagano
In addition, the following persons were present:
William Henderson -PCAC Executive Director
Ellyn Shannon -PCAC Associate Director
Angela Bellisio -PCAC Transportation Planner
Bradley Brashears -PCAC Transportation Planner
Karyl Cafiero -PCAC Research Assistant
Deborah Morrison -PCAC Administrative Assistant
Alex Matthiessen -Move New York
Charles Komanoff -Move New York
Yvonne Morrow -Concerned citizen
Aliya Rasool -Concerned citizen
Approval of Agenda and Minutes
Randy Glucksman established that there was a quorum present for the meeting. The agenda for the March 12, 2015 meeting was approved. The minutes of the December 4, 2014 meeting were approved with corrections noted by William Guild.
Trudy Mason said that she had previously suggested that the meetings of the PCAC be recorded and that the recording could be used to resolve questions about what happened at a meeting. She made a motion that all meetings of the PCAC be recorded and that the recordings be maintained until the next meeting. There was some question about how votes by show of hands would be clarified. Andrew Albert said that the request for a roll call would be recorded and that the process of voting would likewise be recorded and could inform the preparation of minutes. Mr. Guild said that the process that is used with court reporting is that the reporters use audio recordings to verify their notes.
It was agreed that the recordings would function as a backup for the clarification of minutes. Bill Henderson said that the PCAC could obtain a portable digital recorder that would be used to make the recordings. Mr. Glucksman said that this policy would be for the PCAC and that each Council would make its own decision on recording its meetings. A question was raised whether the recording would constitute a record of the meeting. Ms. Mason said that the recording would not be the record of the meeting, but would be a back-up source of information to be used in the preparation and amendment of the minutes. Stuart Goldstein suggested that a tally sheet be kept to record votes. Ms. Mason said that her motion pertained only to recording the meetings. The motion passed with all in favor with the exception of Neal Zuckerman and Michael Godino, who voted in opposition to the motion.
Mr. Glucksman said that the issue of having a tally sheet was open for discussion. Mr. Henderson said that if any member wished to have a vote recorded through a roll call he or she can ask for it and the vote will be taken by roll call. Mr. Zuckerman said that it is his opinion that the recording of meetings and roll calls are technological issues and that there are more substantive questions at issue. He asked whether the PCAC by-laws permit participation in meetings by telephone. Mr. Henderson said that the by-laws are silent on the matter but that the practice of the PCAC was to allow members to fully participate in meetings by telephone. Mr. Glucksman said that in his experience attendance by telephone is beneficial for the functioning of his Council but that each Council could make its own decisions.
Chairs’ Reports
The written Chairs’ reports are attached to these minutes. Mr. Glucksman presented the PCAC Chair’s report.
Sheila Carpenter highlighted issues presented in the LIRRCC Chair’s report. Edith Prentiss noted the press release that the LIRR has sent several weeks ago about hazardous winter conditions and said she was impressed by it. She asked whether winter weather could be addressed as a PCAC issue.
Mr. Glucksman said in the absence of questions he would refrain from discussing his MNRCC Chair’s report. Mr. Albert highlighted several issues in the NYCTRC Chair’s report and said that there is a large amount of controversy about the shutdown of the 7 line on weekends, but that the construction activity would end by summer. He also noted that the MTA is developing a fare application to help riders decide how much value to put on their MetroCards to make an even number of rides and that one can transfer money from recently expired cards without charge.
Ms. Prentiss said that one thing that frustrates riders is being told to use alternate routes during disruptions when there is no reasonable alternate route. Mr. Godino asked whether technology is being installed on the subways to increase capacity in light of record ridership. Mr. Albert said that it is and that this is one part of the reason for 7 line shutdowns on the weekend. Mr. Goldstein said that the PCAC should send a letter protesting the end of direct Brooklyn service with the coming of East Side Access. Mr. Glucksman said that the LIRRCC should take the lead on this. Matt Kessler said that the Brooklyn Borough President’s Office is opposed to the new service pattern. Chris Greif said that the Borough President’s Office has already had several press events highlighting its opposition to the change. The members voted to oppose the change in LIRR service between Jamaica and Brooklyn and to communicate this opposition to MTA leadership, highlighting the impact of the change upon vulnerable populations.
Ms. Prentiss said that NYC Transit needs to do a better job of delineating the responsibilities for dealing with the impacts of winter weather. There are gaps in the cleaning of ice and snow. Mr. Albert said that he would get answers to her questions.
Bradley Brashears distributed paper copies of the 2014 PCAC Annual Report. Mr. Henderson noted that the report is also on the PCAC website.
Introduction of Alex Matthiessen, Campaign Director – Move NY, to
Discuss the Move NY Fair Plan for Toll Reform and Transportation
Funding, Accompanied by Charles Komanoff
Mr. Matthiessen said that Move NY has intentionally not used terms such as “congestion pricing” and “East River bridge tolling,” although these terms are used in the media. He said that New York has a problem with congestion on transit, especially during rush hours. At the same time, the City has a “cockamamie” tolling system, where the major crossings to Manhattan are not tolled, although most other crossings are tolled. This is because decisions have been made by different bodies in an uncoordinated fashion, but this system causes problems such as bridge shopping and the attendant pollution and traffic accidents.
Mr. Matthiessen said that the tollpayers and transit riders are effectively subsidizing the users of untolled bridges and pointed out the situation where free east river bridges are located between tolled crossings, leading to problems with traffic. He said that Mr. Komanoff would be working on estimating some of the negative impacts of this situation.
Turning to the Move NY plan, Mr. Matthiessen said that the plan would bring in $1.5 million in net revenue, and that this includes losses through the reduction of some tolls and the cost of administering new tolls that would be added. Mr. Albert asked whether the MTA would take over the East River bridges as a part of the plan or whether the City would continue to maintain the bridges. Mr. Matthiessen said that Move NY’s proposal is that the City would convey the bridges to the MTA under a long term lease, with the MTA responsible for maintenance and operation. He said that this is not the only way to set up the system, and that in the end the specific arrangement that is used will be the product of discussions between the City and MTA.
Mr. Matthiessen said that the $1.5 million generated by the Move NY plan would be new revenue and that three-quarters of this funding would go to transit, while the remainder would go to roads and bridges. He said that it is necessary for drivers to get something out of the system, which would be the $375 million for roads and bridges. Out of the $1.125 billion going to transit, with about $116 million of this sum going to targeted operating and fare subsidies, which would be used to improve the transit network by closing transit gaps. This leaves about $1 billion per year that could be used as the backing for bonds that would finance the MTA Capital Program.
Several members asked about the mechanics of collecting the tolls. Mr. Matthiessen said that it is very important to harmonize tolls to prevent bridge shopping, but that a toll commission would set the amounts. He said that when legislation is prepared, Move NY will propose that the Legislature include time of day pricing in the system, which would provide for some relief from tolls for those who travel in off peak hours. Ms. Prentiss asked whether there would be some toll relief for persons with disabilities or other populations such as seniors. Mr. Komanoff said that Move NY is proposing to match what the MTA is doing presently, and that making too many changes could threaten passage of the plan.
Ms. Prentiss asked whether the funding generated would benefit station rehabilitation and improvement. Mr. Matthiessen said that it would, but that it would be difficult to include specific projects in the proposal. He said that Move NY did not have the power to guarantee specific improvements, but he hoped that the implementing legislation would include percentages of the funding that must be directed toward certain classes of projects.
Mr. Matthiessen said that the operating and fare subsidies would go toward restoring some of the 2010 service cuts, increasing express bus service, and reducing express bus fares by $1 per trip. This funding would also go toward extending the City
Ticket discount to seven days per week. He said that the filling of the transit gaps could be accomplished in the time between passage of the plan and changes in the tolls. Mr. Matthiessen said that the operating and fare subsidies would also fund suburban bus transportation to increase mobility in these areas.
Mr. Matthiessen showed a map of the crossings covered in the plan that displayed the changes in the charges that would occur under the plan. He also explained the taxi surcharge that would be imposed in exchange for exempting yellow and green taxis and Uber vehicles from the toll for entering the Midtown Manhattan area. This would also have the benefit of increasing the percentage of the plan paid for by Manhattan residents. He noted that there are difficulties in creating a lock box for revenues, but that if the tolls are collected by the MTA they would have possession of the funds and could dedicate them to servicing debt issued to support capital spending. The proposal also includes provisions for maintenance of effort on the part of the State and City.
Mr. Komanoff said that Move NY had hired H R & A Advisors to estimate the impacts of the plan and that they had determined that the plan would result in 30,000 new jobs for the region, which would include construction, transit operations, and maintenance positions. Edith Prentiss asked whether the plan would include discounts for reverse commuters and Mr. Matthiessen said that the expansion of City Ticket may address some of this traffic, and that the system could be designed to provide for these discounts otherwise.
Mr. Komanoff led those present through an explanation of the sources of the revenues for the plan and how the gross revenues are translated into the $1.5 billion per year in net revenues that the plan anticipates. Mr. Goldstein asked how the plan would affect traffic. Mr. Komanoff said that there would naturally be changes, and that traffic that now goes through Manhattan on the way to other jurisdictions would likely be reduced greatly, although not eliminated. Mr. Matthiessen said that Move NY has not performed origin-destination studies because of their great cost.
Mr. Kominoff said that there is evidence about what will happen with toll adjustments from experience in toll increases on MTA and Port Authority facilities as well as other toll facilities around the country and that there is an established range of price elasticities for road pricing that allows him to estimate the impacts of the Move NY Plan on traffic volumes. He said that if there is a lesser shift away from driving, the revenues would be greater, but if the shift is greater, revenues would be slightly less than estimated but congestion and travel times would decrease as well. Mr. Matthiessen said that people drive for reasons other than cost and he expects that the number of drivers that will shift to transit because of toll changes will be relatively low.
Mr. Albert asked whether a resident of Manhattan below 60th Street who leaves the tolled zone and returns would pay a toll. Mr. Kominoff said that the resident would pay a toll, but that there is no charge for travel within the zone. Mr. Albert said that he is concerned that the Legislature will remove other funding from the MTA if the Move NY plan is approved. Mr. Matthiessen said that this is the reason for maintenance of effort provisions, but that it remains a major concern.
Burt Strauss asked what the plan would cost a taxi rider. Mr. Komanoff estimated that an average taxi fare would increase by about $1.25 per ride, which translates to an 11 or 12 percent increase in the total cost of taxi travel. He said that taxi riders are more sensitive to time than price, and that the decrease in congestion would lead to more demand for yellow cab rides. Mr. Matthiessen added that taxi industry organizations support the plan because of this.
Mike Sinansky asked whether the bicycle bridges in the original plan have been eliminated. Mr. Matthiessen said that there were some positives to the bridges, but that they created political problems for the plan and were eliminated. Mr. Sinansky asked whether the plan retains provisions about the use of parkways, and Mr. Matthiessen said that these provisions have been removed. Mr. Sinansky said that he is troubled by the possibility that existing funding will be taken away from the MTA if the plan were approved, and Mr. Matthiessen agreed that this is a concern but said loss of funding is always a risk. He said that not putting lockbox provisions in the plan was a calculated decisions based on the need to avoid political opposition.
Scott Nicholls said that the plan is likely to route more truck traffic through Staten Island. Mr. Matthiessen said that the plan is endorsed by many in Staten Island and that the cost of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge tolls is a primary concern. He said that it is not possible to divert through traffic away from Manhattan without sending it another way and that some of the roads and bridges funding could be used to complete Staten Island Expressway service roads, which would benefit local traffic.
Chris Greif expressed concern about congestion under the Move NY plan. Mr. Kominoff said that the East River bridges would see a one-third decrease in traffic and that the Outer Borough drivers who do not enter Manhattan will be the greatest gainers from the plan.
A motion was made to support the Move NY plan, which was approved by all of those present and by Trudy Mason by proxy, with Mr. Goldstein and Mr. Godino abstaining.
A comment was made about uneven adjustments to tolls. Mr. Matthiessen said that once established all tolls would rise at the same rate when they are increased. He said that many drivers would have tolls reduced and that those who pay no tolls for crossing the East River, and thus are not subject to periodic toll increases, would be asked to pay as others are. Mr. Sinansky said that he thought that the funding of transportation should be diversified. Mr. Matthiessen agreed but said that Move NY is focused on raising funds through restructuring tolls.
Mr. Albert observed that this funding would reduce the possibility of the MTA issuing more fare-backed debt and reduce the future pressure on fares and tolls.
Old Business
No Old Business was discussed.
New Business
No New Business was discussed
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 2:15 pm
Respectfully submitted,
William Henderson
Executive Director